THREE-DAY WORK CONFERENCE - AMSAA (8, 9 AND 12 MARCH 1979)

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This document is a memorandum summarizing a three-day work conference held by the Army Intelligence and Security Command (AMSAA) in March 1979. The purpose of the conference was to address difficulties arising from the Army General Counsel's Office decision that all Army activities under Project GRILL FLAME must comply with HEW guidelines and AR 70-25. The attendees included various AMSAA and INSCOM personnel. One of the main topics of discussion was the development of a Remote Viewing protocol that could be presented to the Surgeon General and Army General Counsel. The protocol excluded the involvement of INSCOM to eliminate security concerns. The question about why INSCOM's portion of the GRILL FLAME Project had to comply with HEW and AR 70-25 guidelines was also raised. It was agreed that if the protocol is accepted as a "No Risk" protocol and it is determined that the guidelines do not need to be followed, approval from the OSG would be required before making any significant changes to the physical environment of the protocols. AMSAA GRILL FLAME personnel shared progress made in their program, particularly with grid coordinates, and made recommendations to improve the product. It was decided that AMSAA and INSCOM GRILL FLAME personnel would meet monthly to exchange ideas and information.

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 Approved For Release 2004/0           C96-007888002000240039-3
 DEPARTMENT OF THE ARMY
 US ARMY INTELLIGENCE AND SECURITY COMMAND
 FORT GEORGE G. MEADE, MARYLAND 20755
 SUBJECT:       Three-Day Work Conference - AMSAA (8, 9 and 12 March 1979)
 1.   (U)  Purpose:  This MFR outlines the significant topics that were
 discussed during the three-day conference hosted by AMSAA.  The conference
 was scheduled to "iron out" difficulties that had arisen due to the recent
 decision by the Army General Counsel's (AGC) Office that all Army activities
 under Project GRILL FLAME must comply with HEW guidelines and AR 70-25.
 2.   (U)  Following individuals were present (as indicated)
 work conference:
 during the
 John Kramar       - AMSAA
 Lynne Taylor      - AMSAA
 Scott Phillips    - AMSAA (Thursday and Friday only)
 COL
 Rapmund       - Director, Walter Reed Army Institute
 of Research
 MAJ
 MAJ
 LT
 Stoner        - OACSI (Thursday and Friday only)
 Watt          - INSCOM
 Atwater        - INSCOM (Monday only)
 3.
 (U)
 John Kramar served as Host for the conference.  Mr. Kramar briefly
 updated everyone on the meeting between Dr. LaBerge (Under Secretary of the
 Army), Mr. Kramar, and Dr. O.G. Villard of SRI.   Dr. Villard felt that
 members of the SRI Technical Oversight Committee were a bit uneasy with
 their role on the committee because they were all engineers and, as a result,
 had done very little in the way of reviewing material put forth by Puthoff
 and Targ.   He felt that committee members were unqualified and that member-
 ship should consist of medical personnel, including a psychologist.
 4.   (S-ORCON)   The bulk of the time was devoted towards developing a
 Remote Viewing protocol that could be presented to the Surgeon General and
 Army General Counsel (See Inclosure 1).   The protocol that was developed
 ARMY review(s) completed.
 CLASSIFIED BY:  Director, DIA
 DECLASSIFY ON:  15 Mar 99
 EXTENDED BY:  Director, DIA
 REASON:   2-301-C(3)(6)
 Approved For Release 2004/0              96-00788R002000240039-3
 Approved For Release 2004/0              96-00788ROO2000240039-3
 IAFM-OPS-HUP
 SUBJECT:  Three-Day Work Conference - AMSAA (8, 9 and 12 March 1979)
 depicts only the involvement of AMSAA and that was done at my request.
 Leaving INSCOM out of the protocol eliminates one more security problem.
 5.   (S-ORCON)   I raised the question of why INSCOM's portion of the
 GRILL FLAME Project had to come under HEW and AR 70-25 guidelines since
 we were not in the R&D business but were task oriented and in the
 applications business.   All agreed that this was a reasonable position
 and COL Rapmund stated that he would raise the issue with the OSG.   In
 fact, COL Rapmund provided the following outline as he perceived INSCOM's
 role in GRILL FLAME:
 a.  Aimed at Real World Targets and Applications.
 b.  Involves only INSCOM personnel (military/civilian).
 c.  All professional intelligence personnel.
 And, that it could be summed up this way:
 TASK - assigned.
 It has been proven it can be done.
 We found people to do the job.
 Want to send them for training.
 Carry out the MISSION!
 6.   (U)   Finally, it was agreed that if protocol is accepted as a "No
 Risk" protocol and further determined that we do not have to follow the
 guidelines of EXO 12036, HEW, and AR 70-25, we must check with the OSG
 before making any significant changes to the physical environment of our
 respective protocols, i.e. If we wanted to use submarines as the remote
 viewing room, this could place the remote viewer in a very stressful
 situation.
 7.   (S-ORCON)  AMSAA GRILL FLAME personnel spent some time with me, in
 private early-morning sessions, outlining progress their program has made.
 Of considerable interest was the sessions they have done with grid
 coordinates.    AMSAA personnel also viewed our initial work and made
 several recommendations which should help improve our product.
 Approved For Release 2004/06      l -    $6-00788ROO2000240039-3
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 Approved For Release 2004/0             P96-00788ROO2000240039-3
 IAFM-OPS-HUP
 SUBJECT:   Three-Day Work Conference.- AMSAA (8, 9 and 12 March 1979)
 8.   (U)   AMSAA and INSCOM GRILL FLAME personnel decided to meet monthly
 (at prearranged time) to exchange ideas and information.  This practice
 should insure that we are kept current on the latest developments from
 the Army R&D community.
 i~ .1~ 1 aC
 O"Ahtf          ?`~
 MURRAY B. WATT
 Major, MI
 INSCOM Project Manager
 GRILL FLAME
 Approved For Release 2004/O              96-00788ROO2000240039-3
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